Reflecting Back on Theatre School

Episode 151:  Reflecting Back on Theatre School

Jesse Wilson was born in LA, started acting at an early age and was accepted into Juilliard. He was on track to becoming a traditional professional actor, but twenty years later has found purpose in the education aspect of the arts. In this podcast Jesse reflects back on his time at Juilliard, his expectations of the experience and what really happened, and what do today’s students need to do to prepare for life after school.

Show Notes

• Face the City promotional package
• Face the City Video
• Theatre Beyond the Stage podcast 
• Theatrefolk Blog

Episode Transcript

Welcome to TFP – The Theatrefolk Podcast – the place to be for Drama teachers, Drama students, and theatre educators everywhere.

I’m Lindsay Price, resident playwright for Theatrefolk.

Hello! I hope you’re well. Thanks for listening!

This is Episode 151.

You can find any links to this episode in the show notes which are at theatrefolk.com/episode151.

All right. Today, we’re looking back. We’re reflecting. Reflection – the great buzzword of education in the 21st Century. “Everybody walk across the room. Okay, everybody, reflect on the experience.” (You know, I’m kidding. I’m kidding.)

Actually, I use reflection all the time in our educational materials. I think it’s important. It’s really key to comprehension and connection – good C words.

So, we’re going to reflect and we’re going to reflect on theatre school. We’re going to look back on going to theatre school twenty years after the fact with Jesse Wilson. He was accepted into Juilliard and one might think that that alone would be a one-way ticket to a professional theatre life because going to Juilliard is a dream for many theatre students.

When I think of theatre school, you know, that’s the name at the top of my list. But, as we all know, dreams are different than reality – in good and bad ways, right? There’s a little teaser for you. You have to listen for good and bad.

Okay, let’s get to it.

LINSDAY: Hello, everybody!

All right, I am speaking with Jesse Wilson.

Hello, Jesse!

JESSE: What’s up, Lindsay?

LINSDAY: Oh, everything is up! Everything is up, nothing is down. Actually, everything is up and everything is down which means we’re all in a good place.

JESSE: That’s great.

LINSDAY: Or something like that.

JESSE: Isn’t that like a She Silverstein or something? “Everything is up, everything is down”? Something like that? I don’t know.

LINSDAY: Oh, I like that. I think that’s wonderful.

JESSE: It sounds like it. If not, it’s something that should be written. I love it.

LINSDAY: It’s a good point of view and we’ll give the credit to Shel Silverstein.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: So, Jesse, you and I talked last year about a wonderful project that you sort of got involved in with theatre in prisons.

JESSE: Yes.

LINSDAY: We also got a little bit into your beginnings and how where you are is probably not where you were expected when you first started out in your theatre career.

JESSE: Not at all.

LINSDAY: That’s kind of what we’re talking about this month on the podcast. We’re talking about, you know, what happens about your expectations of going into a theatre program and what you think your theatre life is going to be and maybe how you can maybe temper some of those expectations or have a strategy, right? Have a sort of strategy for hitting the real world. I think that’s it in a nutshell.

So, let’s go back – way back – and just talk about your beginnings. You grew up in LA.

JESSE: I did.

LINSDAY: What was that like?

JESSE: Born and raised.

LINSDAY: Ah, you’re one of the twenty, right?

JESSE: I think so, yeah! I was born and raised in Hollywood, California – about five minutes away from the Hollywood sign. You could look outside my bedroom window and I saw a very clear view of the Dodgers’ stadium way in the distance and then, to my left, there was the Hollywood sign. I lived in this wonderful, little bubble world in the Hollywood Hills that gave the illusion kind of like living in the country. It was an interesting contrast between that sort of hidden ensconced world of the hills and then the grime of LA.

LINSDAY: You know, it’s so funny because, when we think of – maybe not so much now but I know, when I was growing up, for sure – that notion of the Hollywood sign and its symbolism for this life – not theatre life but this entertainment movie life – did that ever hit you as a kid?

JESSE: That’s right. Well, you know, it’s great that you said that because, to perpetuate the metaphor of the sign, the symbolism, yeah, absolutely, from a distance, it’s this shiny, iconographic beacon to all artists and performers. “Come to Hollywood!” You know, it’s the mecca and it’s all that it represents. Of course, you go up to it – I don’t know if you’ve ever been up to the sign – but it is filthy. I mean, there is graffiti all over it and urine and, you know, needles. Now, they might have cleaned it up a little bit since I was there last but, to me, that’s such a divine metaphor of this business – not to sound cynical. From a distance, it looks amazing, doesn’t it? You get up close and it’s like, “Wow.” It’s a whole different experience.

LINSDAY: You know what, for the arts in general, I mean, you’ll have to get past the cynicism but I think that is a metaphor for the arts life in general.

JESSE: You bet.

LINSDAY: When you look at it from a distance, whether it be a movie career or a writing career or an acting career in theatre, it really does look like this wonderful, awesome life. When you get up-close, I think you can choose your path. You can choose the path where you get very bitter about it or you can choose the path where it’s like, “Hell, this is a lot of work!”

JESSE: Well, sure, absolutely. You know, listen, you have to have the carrot dangling in front of you. I mean, if you learned – maybe it would be helpful, who knows? But, you know, if I learned the realities, the true realities and the nature of the industry or the dark side of the arts at an early age, you know, who knows? Maybe I would have said, “Well, screw it! I’m going to be a flute player.” But, even then, of course, there’s probably some challenges.

But, you know, you have to be enticed because it is enticing. It’s wonderful. When you’re growing up, you’ve got the stars and the silver screen and the cinema and, of course, it looks wonderful. Who wouldn’t want to be a part of that world?

I think the question then becomes, “How do you balance the realities with the fantasy?”

LINSDAY: Yeah, and what happens? Some people do quite well and some people don’t.

JESSE: Yes.

LINSDAY: When did you first start down your path in terms of an arts career?

JESSE: I would say, the moment I slid out of the womb.

LINSDAY: Out you come and there’s a camera and Jesse went, “Hey!”

JESSE: Put it on and let’s go, kid!

Honestly, I can’t remember ever not acting. I grew up in the industry.

LINSDAY: Let’s talk there.

JESSE: Writers, producers. You know, my earliest memory is of Academy award-winning, the parties at our house. All my family’s friends were involved in the industry.

I was onstage, gosh, around five or six. I think I was just always acting.

LINSDAY: What was it like? So, your first steps and you’re still in the Hollywood sign in the distance phase, I’m assuming.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: Were you in theatre? Did you do commercials?

JESSE: Yeah, theatre and commercials sort of went hand-in-hand but I don’t think I was ever not in a play at least four or five times a year. This is, of course, when arts and education was just the expectation. Every school had theatre programs. Now, it’s like, “What? You have a theatre program? Really? That’s amazing!”

And so, in Loz Feliz Elementary, that was when I was just starting to do theatre and my first play – I remember it – I was in the second grade. It was a Japanese play called Momotaro and I played Momotaro and I was the lead and it was awesome.

Then, my family, my mom would come and pick us up. My brother and I were both involved in doing a lot of commercial work and she’d pick us up from school. We’d do the normal audition stuff and we would do our commercials and then we would have school on the set and that was just a normal sort of way of life.

LINSDAY: That’s interesting you say that that was your normal.

JESSE: That was the norm, it was.

LINSDAY: What made you choose? Because you went to Juilliard.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: What informed that decision?

JESSE: Honestly, there really wasn’t any thought.

LINSDAY: Well, it’s the best, right?

JESSE: Well, I guess! I don’t know.

LINSDAY: The notion of.

JESSE: I can only share my experience. I’d love to say in hindsight, you know, “I really carefully considered what would be the best for my training,” and the reality was I was the worst high school student ever. In fact, I barely graduated high school. I had like the lowest GPA and my school counselor even bet me, honestly, $40.00. It was pretty big when you’re a high school kid. “I’ll bet you $40.00 if you graduate.” You know, I took the bet and I graduated.

The opportunity to audition for Juilliard honestly was the most appealing thing – not because I was thinking necessarily in terms of elevating my career as an actor at that point but that was really the only school I thought I could get into because academics weren’t required. And so, I went for it and it was a real gamble because that was the only school that I auditioned for. Otherwise, I think I had plans. I was really into Jack Kerouac at the time and I thought, “Well, okay, if I don’t get into Juilliard, man, screw it! I’ll be a firewatcher up in Oregon,” or something like that. It was from one of his books called The Dharma Bums. I thought, “I’m going to write the great American novel in a shack somewhere if I don’t get into Juilliard.” Well, it turned out that that never happened. I got into Juilliard and, yeah, kind of funny.

LINSDAY: So, there’s something at stake here. One would assume that you – or maybe not, you can tell – what did you do to prepare for your audition?

JESSE: It took place in San Francisco and I had two monologues I had to prepare for – one classical, one contemporary. I mean, it’s the standard audition stuff. Maybe they have changed since then but I think it’s pretty much the standard audition process you go through for any major performing arts school with the one exception.

Once I auditioned and I did the monologues, then they have you go through a callback – of course, if they want you for a callback – and that’s when the fun began because there was a long table of four very scary-looking old men staring down at me and they conducted a series of intense improvisations. I was like, “What the hell is this?” This went on for – I don’t know – maybe a half hour of just this role-playing stuff and putting me in these situations and throwing this stuff at me. It was fun and scary at the same time. It was like the monologue stuff was the door-opener and then the real test was seeing how I handled their improvisational scenarios.

LINSDAY: Did you have improv in high school?

JESSE: Oh, yeah. I loved improv. I went to LACHSA – LA County High School for the Arts – and actually where I’m going to be performing full circle this year.

LINSDAY: Some time in the near future or past.

JESSE: Yeah. We had a great teacher named David Schwartz – this improv teacher and I think he’s still doing it. He was phenomenal. This guy is just like, any time you go in a class, it was like this show, “Whose Line Is It Anyway?” I learned so many things. I really learned how to think on my feet at a very, very early age. That was cool – except for the scary world of – you know, it now became different because it was an audition in San Francisco in front of four very scary old men but I felt definitely right at home with the improv stuff.

LINSDAY: I was going to say, I just have this image of four cantankerous white guys, you, and improv.

JESSE: Yeah!

LINSDAY: Like, there wasn’t even other people you got to improv with? It was just you?

JESSE: No, yeah, it was just me! That’s exactly right! That’s funny now that I think about it. It was just me. It wasn’t like, “All right, let’s throw the monkey in with Jesse and see how he handles it.” No, it was me talking to a chair; me in a trapped elevator; say “I love you” three different ways to a non-existent character – well, a character that you’re making real for you. But, yeah, it was all me.

LINSDAY: I am still stuck on this because it’s just funny when you think about, again, it is symbolism and I think about Juilliard and I think about it as this height of heights, rightly or wrongly; Hollywood sign, great symbol, rightly or wrongly; and that the thing that’s going to make you a good actor is a couple of monologues and talking to a chair. But, as you say, thinking on your feet, and maybe that is a really…

JESSE: Oh, I did sing a song, too. I forgot about that. There was a song that I needed to sing.

LINSDAY: Okay. So, you get into Juilliard. What are your expectations of this institution? What do you think is going to happen before you go?

JESSE: Talk about being ill-prepared. Let me just say I am so grateful, unbelievably grateful that I went there, but I had no idea what it was going to be like – to nobody’s fault, of course. But, honestly, even if I’d done the research, I don’t know if it would have really prepared me.

Here is this young, cocky, long-haired 18-year-old kid. Acting is completely – you know, it’s like breathing – it’s what we do and it’s who I am.

LINSDAY: It’s your norm.

JESSE: It’s my norm, yes! So, you know, I’m just kind of sort of waltzing to this Marlon Brando fantasy that I’d been harboring since time began and I’ll just become more of that. It’s just, you know, nothing was real. And then, wham! It was like theatre boot camp, yeah. “Sir, yes, sir!” and, “If you’re late for class, see ya!”

Now, I’ve heard that Juilliard – and I’m actually in contact with that school quite a bit now and people who have graduated and people who are there and I talk to faculty members so I have a wonderful relationship with them now but – the climate has changed considerably since I was there. I think it’s still strict and regimented – probably one of the more regimented schools – but I think there’s another side to it that let’s just say I didn’t exactly experience when I was there. It was very, very tough.

The foundation of the school is hardcore classical theatre – not that I hadn’t done that before but the training that one had to commit to if you wanted to survive there was intense. That first two years, I’d love to say that it was, “Oh, my gosh! I’m here on an acting school, the most famous school!” but I really seriously fought at just staying in there, just staying alive. I had a very, very tough time. You can say I was disillusioned. I don’t know what other word would sum it up but, yeah, I got my butt handed to me there.

LINSDAY: Okay. So, this is a great point because a lot of our listeners are going to have students who are choosing schools to go to or they themselves are choosing schools to go to. So, let’s talk about, in that position, how do you prepare yourself if you’re going to an acting school? What are some things that you can do so that you don’t end up disillusioned like that?

JESSE: That is a great question.

Well, let’s go back a little bit further. It wasn’t too long ago, I read a nationwide survey and I think it was 71 to about 80 percent – which is a pretty big number – of college graduates – and, when I say college graduates, I mean students in performing arts schools, in Ivy League schools, and whatever – college students, college graduates said that they would have done something different while in college to prepare for entering the “real world.” What that something that was different is or was looked like something that actually really wasn’t taught while they were in school. I mean, obviously, since we’re talking about performing arts, I think you need to think – if it’s at all possible and it’s very, very difficult to do when you’re in the throes of adolescence – it’s very difficult to prepare yourself for the bigger picture beyond just “what am I going to get out of that school?” It’s almost like you have to think about the school beyond the school and that’s the school of life.

LINSDAY: What a hard thing, eh?

JESSE: What a hard thing!

LINSDAY: Well, that 17-year-old is going, “Well, in ten years, I’m going to be…”

JESSE: Exactly. You throw out the word “life skills” to a high school student and you’ll get a finger in your face or a polite nod and it’ll just be like white noise. I mean, if you would have told me about life skills and preparing for the real world then, it wouldn’t have had any impact on me.

So, the question then becomes, “How do you meet students on the level of where they’re at and allow them to see – I use this word, it’s a very interesting word and that’s the word of “role” – allow themselves to see their role beyond just becoming a better actor or a performer?” In other words, there’s implications beyond just, “Hey, I’m going to be a star! Hey, I’m going to get the great agent!” Yeah, there something to be said about making art for art’s sake and that’s fantastic. That’s wonderful. Unfortunately, unless you are a trust fund baby or you’ve been told you’ll never have to worry about the realities of life – I think that applies maybe to one percent of people on this planet – you’ve got to be prepared for the great big stage of life beyond the school.

LINSDAY: I wonder if then the thing that needs to happen is that a 17-year-old who’s looking at this school who also needs to look at after that needs to talk to a third-year or a fourth-year college person and say, “Are you ready?”

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: Again, who’s going to ask that? Because I think that’s the problem, too. This is so hilarious that I just keep coming back to that Hollywood sign. Well, it’s about symbols and then it’s about how, when you get up-close to them, they’re just not what you think they are, and then you have to make a choice about how you’re going to deal with that, and I think college is exactly like that and Juilliard is one thing, my college experience was exactly like that. We think it’s going to be one thing and the reality of the situation is that it’s probably completely different. And then, tack on that, okay, you have this college experience. Now, you’re going to go do life and you don’t know how to do your taxes.

JESSE: Well, absolutely. You know, this is an argument that I’ve been making for a long time, Lindsay, and this is why I’m so involved in arts and education because I think a paradigm shift absolutely needs to be made and I will say it is being made in small ways. I’m seeing that in the schools that I’m working with. But I think the stage needs to be set, so to speak, before the student goes off into that performing arts school and I think it has to do with, you know, a lot earlier.

What I’m getting at is I think, if students were to really, really see that the arts – the role of the arts – were way more than just they initially might have thought it was when they were younger – in other words, the Hollywood sign – if they knew that there was more to the arts than just getting an Emmy award or the Academy award – which is all fantastic stuff, trust me, and I’m not downplaying any of that stuff – I think it’s great to have that – but, if they knew that the implications of the arts went beyond just entertainment, I think that the choices that students would make before they transition into college would be much more intentional and much more thoughtful and it would be backed up with a real feeling of “hey, I can contribute something to this,” and, yes, one can say, “You’re young, you’re adolescents,” but I think anybody is teachable and it really depends upon what you are feeding a student, how you are doing it in an exciting and inspiring way that isn’t just, “Well, now, let’s roll up our sleeves and talk about the real world,” because then you’ve just got one big, giant yawn fest.

LINSDAY: Then, building on what you’re talking about, we’re talking about what does theatre mean in a high school context.

JESSE: You bet.

LINSDAY: Now, you’re talking about the thing that administers always poo-poo. “It’s just games and you’re just putting on plays.’ It’s like, “No, what if we’re preparing for the role of arts in life?”

JESSE: Abso-freakin’-lutely! You just hit it on the head. This goes back to my experience working with inmates. Over twenty years later, after graduating from Juilliard, how ironic is it that I really understood the transformational nature of the arts when I was in a non-“art” environment? You know, I mean, what if I had that knowledge or that experience earlier? Who’s to say?

LINSDAY: It’s the same here because I spent, you know, I spent ten years desperately trying to be the “playwright” – air quotes as big as your face.

JESSE: Yeah, right.

LINSDAY: Trying to be the playwright in the city who got the productions, who did this, who was this, and the devastation when it’s not happening and thinking that that made me a failure which was absolutely of no truth or validity at all.

JESSE: Yeah, you bet.

LINSDAY: What if? What if I figured that out when I wasn’t looking at sparkly signs and sparkly light?

JESSE: Yeah, no, you’re right! You’re right and the artistry of the teaching becomes how do you blend the head knowledge, the practicalities of relationships and art in commerce and the fear of rejection and all that stuff. How do you get that in a student’s mind so at least you have some awareness before they’re off and running? And how do you merge that in with something that they’re really, really excited about? You know, it’s tough, but there are wonderful teachers out there and there is wonderful curriculum that allows students to be able to connect the dots while they’re doing something that feeds their heart, and that’s what I’m all about. I mean, I think, when you’ve got that blend there, then, you know, hey, whatever students decide to do after that, at least they’d been given this information. At least they’ve had something to really kind of sink their teeth into before they’re graduating and, you know, twenty years later in therapy and disillusionment and all the other great stuff.

LINSDAY: We’re saving therapy bills across this great nation!

JESSE: Yeah, exactly! Right, this is our contribution, yeah.

It also goes back to this, you know, when I was younger, I thought – and I am no exception to I think probably the millions of other young cocky artists out there that had to be, oh, the struggling depressed narcissistic…

LINSDAY: The arts come from pain!

JESSE: Yeah, artist, and I don’t think you have to live an unhealthy life to create wonderful work. There was a time really I would have made the argument against that but I really think it’s just the opposite.

LINSDAY: Okay. So, let’s just take you back to you got through Juilliard.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: Stepped out into the real world.

JESSE: Wham-o!

LINSDAY: What was that like? Just to give a picture for everybody.

JESSE: Yeah, yeah, gosh. We’ve got a wonderful metaphor for the Hollywood sign. Geez, I don’t know. Gosh, I’m trying to think. If you could come up with an image that conveys being body-slammed, that would be maybe an enormous wrestler throwing me on the mat and the wrestler has a shirt that says “Life” on it, that’s the first thing I could think of.

LINSDAY: We’ll go with that one. That’s good.

JESSE: Okay, great – giant angry wrestler guy.

So, yeah, you know, it was totally unprepared for – the “real world.” The bubble was burst. All my expectations just were totally shattered. Learning how to make a living and all this stuff, you know, just was a real struggle. And then, finding and maintaining my voice as an artist. Where is Jesse in this world?

Looking back, you know, I’m fortunate enough to be able to use all this stuff and I’ve put all this searching and the finding of one’s identity into a production that I’ve created and that I’m sharing with performing arts schools as a sort of way of kind of giving back and also helping kind of clarifying a lot of the confusion that I felt back then.

You know, I’m able to use a lot of that confusion, fortunately in a way that works and sort of feeds me artistically. But, at the time, I didn’t see any artistry in the floundering and in the misery and the pain and all that stuff – not to say that all of that would have been avoided anyway because, you know, when you’re in your early twenties, you know, pain and confusion is just sort of a given. However, I think, had I had some tools to be able to navigate the waters with, life would have been infinitely easier.

LINSDAY: Well, it’s so interesting because there is that intensity of college life where it is all about the arts – whether it’s classical theatre or playwriting or musicals, whatever. It’s how everything is focused on making that the best that it can possibly be and making a machine at it. But that doesn’t help you land an audition.

JESSE: That’s right.

LINSDAY: That doesn’t help you keep up with your rent. That doesn’t help you maintaining your artistic life – who is Jesse – while you’re trying to make your rent.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: It’s so funny because, unfortunately, what our students see is they see Broadway and they see – there we go! – shiny lights. They see what one outcome of a study experience is and the reality is there’s so many and then there are so many people who never make it to those shiny lights.

I remember a very vivid memory of premiering a play in a high school, a musical in a high school, and the first thing one of the kids said to me is like, “You know, when you take this to Broadway, we’re ready! We’re there for you.” It’s like, “Oh, honey…”

JESSE: Absolutely, and here’s where the paradigm shift needs to be made. It’s hard as it is to grasp when you’re young and you want to make a living. You know, the reward in this business has got to be more than the Hollywood sign. It has got to be more than the bright shiny naked metal man in your hand for Academy awards. It has to be.

I think the real theatre teachers – the Stella Adlers and the Lee Strasbergs and the Sandy Meisners – they were all about helping students come to the awareness that life was infinitely more rich and rewarding than the immediate award of you got the job as much as you want the job, as much as obviously you need the job to pay the rent. The minute that becomes more important than your purpose, than your contribution, and I’m not saying you’ve got to be a Mahatma Gandhi when you graduate school but I think you need to think about what the role of the arts serve or how they serve and why they serve and why they’re on this planet beyond just, you know, “I got a part on day-time television.”

When you do that, I absolutely believe that you eliminate a lot of that need for what you were just talking about, Lindsay, which is that exterior validation that, “If I don’t get this part, I am nothing.” “If I don’t get that accolade…” “If I don’t get that nod…” And then, what you do with that mentality or that fixed mindset is that you now start living your life constantly where your affirmation or confirmation as a human being is determined upon other people.

When you do that – and I’ve seen it, you’ve probably seen it – you’re setting yourself up for tons of misery and the fear of rejection and all that stuff and then, before you know it, that voice inside you, it becomes eroded. It does. It goes away. It shouldn’t have to be that way.

LINSDAY: No.

Okay, as we wrap up here, and I’ll just point out that we’re going to put the show that you are doing which is called Face the City.

JESSE: Face the City.

LINSDAY: I was going to say it and not mumble it. We’ll put your information on that in the show notes.

JESSE: Cool.

LINSDAY: If anyone wants to learn more about that, they can.

As we wrap up here, I think we’ve talked a lot. You know, I think we’ve talked a lot about this whole notion of what you think is going to be out there for you when you choose a school program and when you think about the real world.

So, if you had to give three tips for our folks listening about what they can tell their students about what they should look for or questions they should ask for facing the real world – am I making any sense? I got to the end of that sentence and went, “I’m not sure…”

JESSE: You are.

LINSDAY: Okay. I’m going to stop talking!

JESSE: Well, you’re having a dialogue.

LINSDAY: I’m having a dialogue with myself.

JESSE: I think it goes back to the question, “Why do you want to go to the school?” I think, just start there. I mean, really, have a serious conversation. “Why do you want to do this? Why do you want to become a better actor? Why do you want to become a better dancer? Why do you want to cultivate your talent as a musician? Why? I think that word “why” – if you really, really follow through with it – will create some insight for the student to be able to take some personal responsibility for.

I mean, I think starting right there is, “Why do you want to be in the school?”

LINSDAY: I think that, maybe, what we need to do too is force a couple of extra whys. “Why do you want to be in this school?” “Well, I want to be an actor.” “Well, why do you want to be an actor?” “Well, because of this.” “Well, why?” I think that it’s three or four whys to get to the heart of what it’s going to do and I think everybody needs to have these serious contemplations about it because students these days are in debt up to their eyeballs.

JESSE: Yeah.

LINSDAY: To choose a program and not know why and then get to the end of it and go, “Well, that was okay, and then what?”

JESSE: Absolutely. Also, I don’t know if it’s necessarily tips but I think it’s a fresh reminder that goes back to what I think should be fundamentally in place in education before the performing arts school which is what is the role of the arts. So, you have why and then you have the what. And then, what is the role of the arts? Is it just entertainment? Can it save a life? I think, when you have those kinds of discussions – hopefully, if it’s facilitated in the right way – then you naturally have at least the beginnings of an awareness. “Oh, my gosh, I’m a part of something a lot greater than my own ego.”

LINSDAY: Wouldn’t that be a lovely thing to figure out for yourself?

JESSE: That’s the ideal.

LINSDAY: That is the ideal. That’s awesome. Awesome!

Ah, Jesse, another lovely conversation!

JESSE: I love it.

LINSDAY: Thank you so much for joining me today.

JESSE: Thank you so much, Lindsay! I’m excited.

LINDSAY: To go with it, could you ask for more? I think not. It’s all for you!

You can catch the blog on our website – theatrefolk.com – or you can also click the link in the show notes in this episode – theatrefolk.com/151.

Finally, where, oh, where can you find this podcast? We post new episodes every second Tuesday at theatrefolk.com and on our Facebook page and Twitter. You can find us on youtube.com/theatrefolk and on the Stitcher app. You can subscribe to TFP on iTunes. All you have to do is search for the word: “Theatrefolk.”

And that’s where we’re going to end. Take care, my friends. Take care.

Music credit:”Ave” by Alex (feat. Morusque) is licensed under a Creative Commons license.